Good article on BD+

Discussion in 'Movie Lounge' started by Michael, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. Michael

    Michael Junior Geek

    Some highlights:
  2. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Active Member War Zone Member

    Oy! What's the chances of all this actually working?

    I heard that the Transform Code will be out with the release of The Transformers movie. W/o the code in a legit machine, the action sequences look mighty boring.... ;)

  3. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin War Zone Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    I think we've discussed most of these points before and I'm guessing a lot of it is FUD. I mean, time limited movies? Remember a year ago when we were all discussing those "disposable" DVDs that will essentially go through a controlled decomposition and stop working after 3 days or 10 days or whatever? So somewhere out there on a forum there's a guy saying that they're going to release movies that don't work 10 days after you open them. Yeah, they COULD, OK...

    The bottom line is that there are studios like Fox that this is the only way they're going to release their films on the next gen formats. And maybe they will use some of these features. How about movies that won't play before their street date? Would that be so terrible?
  4. Shane

    Shane Active Member

    Remember the "Internet connected" HD player discussion? ROFL.

    I could post a list of HD DVD's security but it's already been broken so it would be a blank page :D
  5. DYohn

    DYohn Well-Known Member Donor

    To me the bottom line for any DRM or copy protection scheme is assuming you are simply doing what the system is designed to do: playing a legal disc in a legal machine, all of this should be pretty transparent no matter which format we want to discuss. It's simply taking a Macrovision style concept and bringing it into the new digital age. :shrug:
  6. Dennis Pagoulatos

    Dennis Pagoulatos Active Member

    Was "Macrovision" truly transparent- I remember being able to clearly spot it on brand new VHS movies in the late 80's (the slowly shifting contrast and brightness)- and it was distracting as hell- is that what you are referring to?

  7. Michael

    Michael Junior Geek

    The plan is always for visual and audio watermarking to be transparent. I know that I have seen it, particularly the visual watermarking used in theater releases.
  8. Michael

    Michael Junior Geek

    I do want to reiterate something I said a few weeks back.

    The one big negative I see with the format war is that people do not criticize whichever format they have bought into, even if that format is introducing stuff that could (or will be) harmful to the consumer. We are seeing comments like "Would that be so terrible" for content controls, including controlling the dates and length of time you have to view a movie. Folks... that is what DIVX was.

    Imagine that there was one HD format. Imagine movies were already out and the technology was working. Then they were about to introduce a technology that was going to introduce watermarking and have each disc run a VM that had the potential to disable playback, etc. People would be rightfully concerned and asking questions about the technology and some general pushback about the value of changing a working technology. That has been lost with the format war. People are far too willing to sweep potential issues under the rug.
  9. Tom R S 4

    Tom R S 4 New Member War Zone Member

    You are correct. However, the potential for these things is one thing, actually implementing them (like divx did) is something else. IIRC all of these anti-consumer items (and others) were mentioned well before HD-DVD or Blu-Ray were available to the public, and there was a bit of a stink then. Part of my original reason for not buying into either format was the possibility of divx-like measures. So far I'm not aware of any being implemented, but I'm not going to bet that there will never be any. I can safely say, that I won't buy anything that forces divx-like measures on me. Unfortunately, there were people who bought divx products, and I'm afraid even more people will be weak enough to purchase divx-like HD products. We can only hope that enough sensible people exist to kill them quickly.
  10. Michael

    Michael Junior Geek

    Thanks Tom!

    What is funny is that my guess is that there are few people in a place like HTL who would be saying "So what?" about the potential impact of DIVX like controls if there was one format. As enthusiasts and consumers we should be at a place where we can be more demanding then ever before for the studios and component manufacturers to make guarantees about the limites of their powers with tools like BD+. Why? Because there is a competitor that is offering the same thing on a different format! :)

    We need to stop being sheep and cheerleaders and start being consumers. I guarantee you that the studios are working hard doing their jobs to maximize profit for themselves and their shareholders. We need to do our job as consumers and demand the most functionality and value for ourselves! This applies regardless of which (or both or neither) format you support!
  11. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin War Zone Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    The issue is, do you reject a technology that has the POTENTIAL to do something? Like I said, DVD has the potential to be time limited. It didn't when it was released but it does now.
  12. Michael

    Michael Junior Geek

    You do when there is a competitor in the marketplace! :D

    With DVD, the only option is to opt out of specific software titles. With HD DVD or Blu-Ray, you have a choice of entire formats.

    The consumer should have more power then ever before, but precious few want to be critical of their format of choice.
  13. Tom R S 4

    Tom R S 4 New Member War Zone Member

    No, I don't reject a technology that has a POTENTIAL to do something, and I suspect that anyone who says they do is mistaken. I should have worded my last post a little differently: Part of my original reason for not buying into either format right away was the possibility of divx-like measures. There were other reasons, most of which I think have been taken care of (for now, anyway).
  14. LarryB

    LarryB Active Member


    As someone who knows more about this technology than the guy in the street, but far less about it than many people here (yourself certainly included), I would like to point out that the issue you are raising is not one that seemed to predominate in the numerous prior threads. In fact, I was barely aware of it. So do I understand correctly that Blu-Ray has (or may have?) consumer controls that HD-DVD does not?

    Is this something the studios have talked about?

    Please educate me. Thanks
  15. brianca

    brianca New Member

    The problem I have is that such an approach favors a product that's incompetent at it goal of controlling content over one that has a viable solution for doing so. It worries me to chose a product BECAUSE they have inferior technical abilities.

    the first thing I thought of when I read that HD-DVD was requiring an ethernet port on players was phone-home, but that never materialized, so I didn't let it stop me from considering the format.

    I suppose it's a classic risk assessment model. What are the risks that blu-ray will implement a strategy that will harm me vs the benefits of the format. In my case, I chose the latter, but I like to think that it's a reasoned choice rather than being a sheep led by the nose. I think a perfectly reasonable person can come down on the other side.

    That's why there's so much confusion, I think. There is no clearly better product. Things would be much easier if that were the case.
  16. Shane

    Shane Active Member


    HD and BR are not offering the same level of protection.
    BD+ is an add on to the AACS which the HD DVD group implemented. AACS is the same on both. HD DVD ONLY has AACS.

    BD+ is added "protection".
    There already is I guarantee it. I know of quite people here that simply don't care. This is evidenced by that same attitude when discussing BDJ1.1 profile.
  17. brianca

    brianca New Member

    I think he meant the same movie on a different format. Same to the consumer vs. same to the studios.
  18. LarryB

    LarryB Active Member


    Do you support HD-DVD because of the extra protection on Blu-Ray?
  19. Michael

    Michael Junior Geek

    I am talking about for the consumer. BD+ does not offer anything directly to the consumer.

    It is my belief that the reason people "don't care" is because they are too busy supporting "their format" instead of thinking about what is best for them as consumers of movies, etc. If there was one format and they tried to introduce BD+ a year after launch, I am guessing that the overwhelming response would be negative. Likewise, I am guessing people would be much more critical of things like BD-J causing player hangs and/or causing very slow start times, etc. And why not? These are all net negatives to the consumer.

    I could understand some people being more passionate about the impact then others, but the silence on these topics from those having to live with it is deafening. The primary reason for the silence is that they have stopped advocating for themselves as consumers and are advocating for the format.
  20. Michael

    Michael Junior Geek

    I think with Shane it is all about "Think Blu". :D

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