Something I need to deal with. Advice wanted

Discussion in 'The VIP Lounge' started by Max Yokell, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. Max Yokell

    Max Yokell Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    Wow I have an issue I must deal with now that isn't very fun.

    Ian went bat shit last Friday and took out nearly two years worth of frustration from teasing and threats out in a single day.

    Ian is a bit of a sensitive kid and sometimes gets teased a bit and this happens in Hockey as well. Most times it isn't that bad because goalies are kind of expected to be weird and the team generally know he is very good most days out. There are still always the occasional kid and one or two kids of of the 17 on his team that are always a pain.

    One of those kids, we shall call Him J has been pretty much a PITA for going on two years. Ian and he have needed to have some step in several times and prevent fights. Think is J is a big WWF or whatever wrestling is on nowadays and has brothers he fights and wrestles with all the time and Ian never watches wrestling and as little interest in it and rarely if ever gets in any type of fights. So not surprisingly J is a bit more aggressive and quite a bit tougher thanks to a program of constant ass beatings from his older brother.

    The pattern started almost two years ago when we they were squirts and played a tough team and eventual division winner in Ft Myers. Most of the game was tied the first period at 0-0 and most of the second at 1-1 and in the last mins of the 3rd period they scored and Ian's team lost 2-1 sounds like a close game, only thing is it wasn't. The other team kids Ian's Team ass up and down the rink and left and right all over. When all was said and done the coach has said Ian faced 52 shots in net and the other goalie faced 13 and some of the 13 were even questionable as to if they should be counted or not.

    The odd thing was in all of this there was a buzz in the stands and this buzz was about Ian parents and kids in the bleachers from both teams were talking all about the incredible goalie that made an actual game out of what was a slaughter. The were kids in the stands from the other team side shouting in awe at some of the moves Ian had made in net preventing goals.

    After this game they had another one and it was Ian's turn to sit and let the other goalie play.

    This game went a complete 180 as they played the worst team in the league and the other Goalie on Ian's team posted a shut out as The Bulls went on to win 5-0 thing was the kid who got the shut out faced only 4 shots in the entire game and they were all softies. After the game Ian congratulated the other goalie on his shut out that was that.

    Later that week at practice J and one other kid started giving Ian a hard time in the locker room and telling him that he cost them the tie by giving up the second goal. Ian made mention of the shot disparity and told him the loss wasn't on his shoulders. It was only two kids on the team giving him a hard time and the coaches kid who was one of the few others in there at the time tried to tell these kids if it hadn't of been for Ian it would have been like 5 or worse to 1.

    Whatever it was a pain but Ian moved on and a few nights later in practiced egged on by J and the other trouble maker the other goalie started getting in Ian's face and telling him how much better he was then Ian, which was quite amusing because everyone on the team knew better and Ian laughed him off as the team shuffled out at the start of practice and but Ian as a goalie and the other goalie tend to take longer getting dressed and J and another lingered and eventually convinced the goalie to go for Ian and I happened to be in there and prevented it. Like I alluded to earlier Ian is a bit of a Pussy when it comes to fighting and in this instance I had no doubt that inspite of that Ian would have won that fight. The kid had no business running his mouth.

    I know long winded so get to the point. A pattern started and it usually involved Ian getting blamed by J most times the team lost and the coach usually playing Ian against the better teams to give them the best shot of winning those game but J has been a PITA for two years. There were times when I would be helping Ian with his gear and J would be talking trash and Ian would ask if I was going to do anything and I kept telling Ian, he should just ignore the teasing from him.

    Fast forward to friday in Hockey camp. Camp starts at 9 am and Ian is first in the locker room near 8 and I am kind of hanging out and Ian has some gummy bears and there had been a joke played a few days earlier which Ian stuff was covered in Gummy bears. So Ian as a joke carely placed some gummy bears around the locker room where certain people would sit. It was in good fun. Ian's friend Matt came in and Ian gave Matt a bunch to Matt and then J came in and demanded some and Ian said No I am not giving anything to you because you are always mean to me. He had to repeat himself and I suggested Ian should just give him a few but Ian held fast I am not because he is mean and treats me badly. OK....

    A few mins go by one of the camp counselors is in one corner of the locker room and I am sitting across from Ian and a Kid Mikey is sleeping against the other corner and Matt and Ian have taken to tossing gummy bears at each other and are laughing and J is the only other one in the locker room. J starts grabbing some of the gummy bears of the floor and tossing but not like Matt and Ian were he is throwing them as hard as he can but there is still laughter. Then J has to change the dynamic and rather then tossing them the length of the locker room steps and up and his Ian at point blank range as Ian hid is face in fear and he jumped with a loud ouch and quickly turned back and tossed one that hit J in the face. J then grabbed Ian and started trying to get him in a hold of some sort and they squirmed the counselor and I quickly moved to break up the fight but J had gotten Ian in a Headlock and dragged him from the center of the locker room to the wall and banged his head to the wall.

    They were told to go back to getting dressed and I sat there rather then leave for work like I needed to to keep an eye on things. and everything seemed to have calmed down. Other kids filled the locker room and the counselor left. Then after biding his time a little Ian who was still stewing jumped up ran over to J and punched him in the side of the head. I jumped up and broke it up again quickly. Now imagine a locker room Then the kids went out on the ice and As I left I found J's dad and tried to keep things low key, as he dad has always been a really nice guy and let him know there were issues and to keep an eye on it.

    Well from what I have heard after I left J's Dad came in and told Ian if he were my dad he would be in big trouble right now.

    Then throughout the day J continued to threaten him and tell him that he was going to beat Ian up after the end of day scrimmage. So my office being down the ST I decided to go watch the end of day scrimmage and got there just before it started at 3 pm. I walked into the locker room where all the kids including J were telling me Ian was scared to come in the locker room because of J saying he would beat him up again. They said Ian disappeared at the end of the last session. I turn to walk out and here comes Ian seemingly oblivious to all of this and it turned out he got a drink and was no returning to the locker room drink in hand no appearing to be all that worried. He mentioned that J had been telling him all day that his father had given him permission to beat Ian up provided he waited until after the scrimmage.

    So I watched the scrimmage and then scrambled to the locker room and I had gotten there a bit to slow. Ian faced the threat all day walked into the locker room saw J bent over removing his skates and grabbed him by the head and slammed it back into the wall and then just went about his business.

    I was pissed at Ian for his actions because we do not approve of violence like this and he got into quite a bit of trouble.

    Later on I heard some of the Team moms had complained to Ian's coach even though this was not a team event it was an open hockey camp.

    I then got an E-mail from an angry father saying he would call the police if Ian attacked his son again and that next time J would do more then subdue Ian in a headlock. The father seems clueless that J was the first to lay hands on Ian and the first thing he did was hit Ian's head against the same wall his Son had his banged on.

    I try to contact the father but he did not accept or return my calls.

    I had hoped that in moday's practice I would get to talk to him but he and his son did not show up.

    So it is funny how the Bully's dad seems to be the first to want to call the cops.

    I am thinking that perhaps the best way to handle this is a back handed apology sent out to the Parents of the team the head of the camp and the coach of the team.

    I would started out by saying I would like to contact you as you all have heard some form of what went on last Friday and I would like to take this chance to apologize to each and everyone of you for my mistakes and failures in parenting and then go on to explain how it was wrong of me to always tell Ian to ignore J's teasing, taunts and threats and how it was wrong for me not to make a bigger deal of these things to the coach as they were happening.

    And I was wrong when J attacked Ian before camp on on Friday morning for not making a bigger deal of it and contacting the police when J hit Ian's head against the wall while he had him in a headlock and for trying to calm things down and trying to get things back on track rather then making a big stink about it.

    And I was wrong when Ian made his first retaliation for not dragging the councilors and the guy in charge in there and making them put J in a different locker room.

    Because of always trying to be the nice guy and telling Ian to ignore the teasing, taunts and threats of a Bully he finally snapped in camp when faced with more threats after being manhandled head first into a block wall and now many people seem quite upset with him...

    As am I I really wished I had been smart enough to have spoken up for Ian 2 years earlier when the teasing started and before the bully's parent ended up threatening to call the cops on my son.

    I am sorry and I hope you can see fit to continue to let Ian play on team in the fall and accept him for what he is, an imperfect child that makes mistakes, I can promise you I will not make the mistake of keeping my mouth closed again.

  2. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin War Zone Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    Don't know what to tell you. Dealing with other people's kids sucks. Bullying is something that our society is doing basically NOTHING about. I've seen 20/20 specials on it and read articles. For some reason adults seem to think that harassment and aggression that would NEVER be tolerated in the adult world is OK with kids, especially boys. I don't say this lightly and I hope no one is offended but this is what leads to Columbine. These kids are basically tortured until they snap. Now I'm not saying Ian will go postal but he was already egged into physical violence. And as is typical, its the instigator that throws his hands up in the air and cast blame on the reactor.

    I know that doesn't really help, but you are not the only parent dealing with this. Perhaps call the other parent and have a heart to heard but you must absolutely be sure not to be accusatory in the slightest. Parents will circle the wagons around their kids in a heartbeat, even if what you say is 100% true, if you say it the wrong way.
  3. Alfer

    Alfer New Member

    Wow Max...what a mess...sorry to hear you all are having so much trouble.

    Not sure of what the best route to take is other than letting everyone know that J is/was the troublemaker from day one and that your boy simply couldn't take it anymore and snapped. Tell them it was not in his nature, but J has been tormenting him for two years and Ian let the anger get out of control, but you don't condone it and will take care of it.

    Seems like perhaps this is a sport that breeds a more agressive/angry athlete than other sports and you all need to decide if it's the direction you want Ian to continue growing into or instead move on to find another outlet that suits Ian's needs.

    I realize it's just the one bad egg, but what are the odds that down the road there won't be more J's out there waiting in the you all want to deal with that during his whole childhood?

    Again. I'd contact all the parents/coaches via mail/email and politely but firmly state that the actions of one bad egg has snowballed into agressive behavior of which you don't tolerate and will deal with it first hand. Also make sure you point out that the action of another team player have been less than steller and you feel the parents haven't taken action to quell his threatening outbursts etc..

    I wish you and your family well and hope this ends certainly don't want to watch Ian grow up to be an agressive and angry young man just because of a sport.

    Best of luck.
  4. Drew

    Drew Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    dealing with other people suck....

    Hell, if it's 100% true AND no matter how you say they will deny it/take offense/insert some other absurd reaction here.

    Max, this really sucks and don't know what to say. This is a great example of why I choose to ignore most people in life. People suck and it's very hard to change that.
  5. RicP

    RicP New Member

    Absolute rubbish. Where are all the headlines about professional hockey players shooting people, doing drugs and going to jail? It's a common theme in the NFL/NBA.

    Blaming the sport? That's simply ridiculous.
  6. Alfer

    Alfer New Member

    How many bloody fist fights do you see at any given kids/adults baseball, basketball, tennis, golf, volleyball, etc etc game...? Maybe once in a blew moon?

    How many daily hockey games do you see where sevral players feel the need to pummel each other till they are covered in blood...I'd say a LOT more...

    Not that EVERY hockey players does this..but you can darn sure bet at any given day a hockey game is played during hockey season, you WILL see players pummeling each other.

    Sure other sports have plenty of troubles, but when you take your family to a hockey game and find that two or three times in an hour guys are bloodying themselves up on the ice, then that's what I'd define as a bit more of an aggressive sport.
  7. Max Yokell

    Max Yokell Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    I am with Ric, the sport is not at fault, this was clearly a case of a bully get his due after a long time coming. I do not condone what Ian did but I would not be honest if I did not say there was at least a small part of me that was happy he stood up for himself and I really suspect that J will find a new target for his aggression as most times once you have stood up to a bully and gotten the better of it, they usually won't risk messing with you again.

    I don't want to see him take up roughing up anyone that insults him but once hands have been laid on and threats continue I would like to see him get the better of it.

    Most of the people I have met in Hockey have been very good people and most of the kids are generally pretty decent kids. I will even go so far as to Say J's Dad and Mom are pretty nice, but I suspect the whole was played out to them as what happened to their kid and they have no idea their kid has been a bully and put his hands on first.

    If the guy is to angry to talk to me then My "Apology" to the team will force him to at least take some notice and at the same time help somewhat to let other parents know more of the story then Just Ian smashed J's head against the wall while a whole crowd of kids watched.


  8. Jason Lorette

    Jason Lorette Active Member

    Max...I am going to respond to this later when I get home...I was that little kid that got bullied....I'm very busy at I will respond later.
  9. Alfer

    Alfer New Member

    Sounds like you're on the right track Max...make sure BOTH sides of the story is layed out for all to hear/see and then move's about all you can do. Stay polite, stay open to talk with whoever feels the need to talk, and that will help out in the long run.
  10. Drew

    Drew Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    O Rly? Big hockey fan? Pummel? Now are you saying fights, or just normal hits during a game, much like football? Just want to get this out of the way so you don't twist it around later on.
  11. Alfer

    Alfer New Member

    Have ya not been to a game? I've watched and been to enough games to have witnessed two players rip off their gloves (not always though) and begin to punch the living shit out of another teams player..and it goes on for like 5 minutes while everyone cheers and waves like it's the coolest thing ever.

    So you're saying you've never watched a real hockey fight?

    ..and no I don't mean checking etc...
  12. Ken McDaniel

    Ken McDaniel Active Member War Zone Member

    Alfer, I'm with Ric on this one. Take it from someone who does violence for a living. I want no Soldier working for me that hasn't received and given an ass whooping at some point in his life. Sports is the closest thing our society has to that. We lose that aggression, worse things are in store for us.

    Max, if I'm approached by the parents I would give the "boys will be boys" standard line. If they threaten police action, threaten it right back, and then call the police first. Remind J's father that the two of you are trying to teach boys to act like men and that men solve their problems, not go crying to mom or the city municipality.

    Seriously, it's not a nice world out there and kids have to learn to eat or be eaten. Occasionaly you have to be able to defend yourself. I have a 6 year old daughter that three time a week puts on her pads and mouthpiece and enters a ring to do sparring practice against boys twice her size and up to three years older. She gets knocked down a lot buy she knows how to hit and be hit.

    I would chew Ian's ass to no end about delivering a cheap shot. Put some gloves and some headgear on him and teach him to properly defend himself. Teach him that a gentleman never throws the first punch, but he should always throw the last.
  13. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member War Zone Member

    I had a similar experience with my boy (my boy is Ian as well). He just turned 6 this month and he's 54" tall. My wife is 6'2" and my boy is going to be big. He towers over kids his age. He has almost everyone in his class by a full head, so we face some unique challenges when he plays sports against other "little" kids.

    He started playing basketball in a league for 5 to 7 year olds. He's a tall boy, but he's not particularly coordinated. That lead to him running into kids, falling and general lack of body control. Just so happened that one day, he ran into a little boy. Now, my boy is a nurturer, and he is probably a little likely to take shit from kids. He wants to make people happy and he has a smile on his face 24x7.

    So, fast forward to the next game and this little kids mom is saying that she doesn't want Ian to guard her boy, because last time he was there, he hurt the little boy and he had to go to the hospital because of a heart condition. Of course, the whole story reeked of BS and it was BS. I talked to the people who run the league and they pulled her kid immediately because of his condition. Then she admitted she made the whole thing up because her kid couldn't score because my son guarded him to well and he was so tall. Drumroll please.... This was Upward basketball. A church league. :shock:

    So, if I were in your situation, I would tell my son he better not lay a hand on anybody. I would then tell J's father that Ian will not touch his son again, and you expect the taunting to stop. I would tell him that if anybody touches anyone, the authorities will be called. I would probably also tell J's day that if the taunting didn't stop, I would kick his ass, but that is soooo the wrong answer. However, I might do it to keep my son from getting taunted.

    Bully the bully's dad. I'm a dick. :(
  14. Alfer

    Alfer New Member


    Here's a site that keeps tab's on the fights..keeps track of YTD fights, how long, with whom, why they fought etc...don't usually see that in any other sport..other than WWF crap.

  15. Alfer

    Alfer New Member

    Agreed, and I bet my BIL who's in your line of work would agree..ya gotta be tough to be in a profession such as yours...note though that Ric was dogging me because he thinks that sports (in this cas hockey)isn't a cause for aggressive behavior etc. I simply stated that I think hockey is a much more aggressive sport than many others out there.
  16. Alfer

    Alfer New Member

    :shock: :shock: :shock:
  17. Max Yokell

    Max Yokell Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    It is so Funny because the Way Ken thinks is so the way I think and I have been hoping that Ian would mentally toughen up.

    I even gave him hell about the cheap shot and if you are going to fight do it fair and square.

    It is also part of that Boy will be Boys thinking that got us here. So while I may think like Ken on this matter I guess I am looking to manipulate the situation to where everyone at least sees some of the other side of the story and them move on.

  18. Drew

    Drew Well-Known Member War Zone Member Top Poster

    Color me not surprised.
  19. Alfer

    Alfer New Member

    Yup just get all sides to the story out there and at least feel better that you did what ya could.

    One thing for sure if the boy is more of a gentle type kid, no sense forcing him to be a "tough guy" via his actions or the sports he may just not be his destiny in life.
  20. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member War Zone Member

    Another thing I do is try to avoid talking about this stuff in front of my kids. Nothing worse than your kid parroting something you said out of anger that got logically brought down later. Much like J's litte spout off about what his dad said.

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